Nation has failed to recognise father of nation !!! - Page 7

nisargo · #61 (**permalink**) 04-16-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IbLIsH

okk.... amar eishob nonsence publicder shathe debate korar kono iccha nai.... er jara amar gostir shomporke shondeho prokash koren tader welcom amar ekhane... coz gustir ekta soto khato musium o ase... er shobai name nah sil sappor mara freedom fighter... apnader moto alga deshpremik naaa.... ja golabaji korte beshi lyk koren niche diye desher barota bajate karponno bodh koren na...

goood bye tader jara amake sry niejeke ramsagol vabte lyk koren....

[dnt get hurt nybody . ur post deserves it]

aamr baba,amar nana muktijoddha chilen...aamr babar frnd jini major jia er under ei juddho krosilen....amar ammur mama ke muktijoddhader help korar jonno gacher sathe bedhe pitaisilo....so...kotha bolar age jaina suina kotha bolben plz...apner gusti muktijiddo korse deikha r keu kisu kore nai ba kisu jane na eita vaba thik na..jara ei rokom vabe tader bola hoe mukrho///r ramchagol kotha ta to apne likhei disen

}|Serial_Killer|{ · #62 (**permalink**) 04-16-2007, 02:44 PM

nisargo brother dont get excited ...... Nizami jr. mone hoy palaise ......

the_zeus · #63 (**permalink**) 04-17-2007, 01:00 PM

ami kichu bolbo na

Masoom · #64 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 05:17 AM

Sheikh Mujib wanted a confederation: US papers

WASHINGTON, July 6: The US State Department’s newly declassified documents about the 1971 debacle show that Sheikh Mujibur Rahman wanted to have a “form of confederation” with Pakistan rather than a separate country. The documents include two telegrams dating Feb 28, 1971 and Dec 23, 1971 “based on the sentiments of Sheikh Mujib and the then Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi,” showing that Sheikh Mujib was not secessionist, as many in the then West Pakistan believed.

The telegrams, sent to the State Department by the US embassies in Pakistan and India, document key foreign policy decisions and actions of the administrations of Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford.

The telegram, entitled “Conversation with Sheikh Mujibur Rahman,” shows the path followed by the Awami League leader as he “talks of excesses by West Pakistan, states he (Mujib) is not willing to share power and does not want separation but rather a form of confederation.”

In November 1969, a year before the war began, a US diplomat sent this report to Washington: “… East Pakistan, one also senses a growing undercurrent that beyond some intangible point the West Pakistan landlord-civil service-military elite might prefer to see the country split rather than submit to Bengali ascendancy.”

One telegram quotes Indira Gandhi as saying that President Nixon has “misunderstanding about India’s case” and that “there is fantastic nonsense being talked about in the US about our having received promises from the Soviet Union about the Soviet intervention against the seventh fleet and against China.”

The documents released on June 28 provide full coverage of the US policy towards India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the newly created state of Bangladesh from January 1969 to December 1972.

Documents from March to December 1971 include intelligence assessments, key messages from the US embassies in Islamabad and New Delhi and the Consulate General in Dhaka, responses to National Security Study memoranda and full transcripts of the presidential tape recordings that are summarized and excerpted in editorial notes in volume XI.

The historian branch of the State Department held a two-day conference on June 28 and 29 on US policy in South Asia between 1961 and 1972, inviting scholars from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh to express their views on the declassified documents.

During the seminar, Bangladeshi scholars acknowledged that their official figure of more than 3 million killed during and after the military action was not authentic.
They said that the original figure was close to 300,000, which was wrongly translated from Bengali into English as three million.

Shamsher M. Chowdhury, the Bangladesh ambassador in Washington who was commissioned in the Pakistan Army in 1969 but had joined his country’s war of liberation in 1971, acknowledged that Bangladesh alone cannot correct this mistake. Instead, he suggested that Pakistan and Bangladesh form a joint commission to investigate the 1971 disaster and prepare a report.

Almost all scholars agreed that the real figure was somewhere between 26,000, as reported by the Hamoodur Rahman Commission, and not three million, the official figure put forward by Bangladesh and India.
Prof Sarmila Bose, an Indian academic, told the seminar that allegations of Pakistani army personnel raping Bengali women were grossly exaggerated.

Based on her extensive interviews with eyewitnesses, the study also determines the pattern of conflict as three-layered: West Pakistan versus East Pakistan, East Pakistanis (pro-Independence) versus East Pakistanis (pro-Union) and the fateful war between India and Pakistan.

Prof Bose noted that no neutral study of the conflict has been done and reports that are passed on as part of history are narratives that strengthen one point of view by rubbishing the other. The Bangladeshi narratives, for instance, focus on the rape issue and use that not only to demonize the Pakistan army but also exploit it as a symbol of why it was important to break away from (West) Pakistan.
Prof Bose, a Bengali herself and belonging to the family of Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose, emphasized the need for conducting independent studies of the 1971 conflict to bring out the facts.

She also spoke about the violence generated by all sides. “The civil war of 1971 was fought between those who believed they were fighting for a united Pakistan and those who believed their chance for justice and progress lay in an independent Bangladesh. Both were legitimate political positions. All parties in this conflict embraced violence as a means to the end, all committed acts of brutality outside accepted norms of warfare, and all had their share of humanity. These attributes make the 1971 conflict particularly suitable for efforts towards reconciliation, rather than recrimination,” says Prof Bose.

I know what the blind would say but then this is for the independent peoples! I didn't want to debate here as people take this issue very serious but the way some people are attacking Iblish and his side of story just show's how blind some of you are! And how right people are about us Bengali are that we are closed minded! Come on listen to people, let them express like you do, and before you make judgments read all side of story and not just what you like or family wants you to believe. My whole family is AL supporters including 1 previous MP but I don't hate MP but most Bangladeshi politicians, I disagree Mujib was so great as people make him to be but I strongly respect all freedom fighters. My point is to accept good and bad but not just the good! My point is why give all credit to Mujib who gained more then lost and no credit to the freedom fighters that only lost and lost.

Priest · #65 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 09:44 AM

You need a nation head to spear the Freedom movement. It seemed as though Mujib did the job that he was asked for. Naturally, it comes as no surprise that he might have had few skeletons hidden in the closet.

From a different perspective, it might also be possible that Mujib never wanted to get into the war part. Maybe he intended to avoid conflict by negotiating terms in favourable condition of West Pakistan. Maybe he was in pressure from his own peers to not risk a war, which might also upset his own position.

However, he eventually did rally the force. Even if the numbers might be less, their sacrifice is not negligible in the freedom war of 1971. I personally feel that Mujib should be reckognized as the head of the country, as it is proper to do so for every independent nation. He has the best bet in making the history through his contribution more than the other aspiring leaders of Bangladesh at that time.

dIsTiNG · #66 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 02:27 PM

Ei thread e onek separatist er adda dekha jacche. Onek onnorokom example dekha jacche. AMi dekhchi amader baap der voot akhono jaenai. But,

Next after 2/3 generation everybody will look for who was our father of the nation. And, i dont think that wont bother for anyone what happend after 1971 in Bangladesh. 1975 nia matha ghamanor generation almost gone, ato mone rakha jae ar tareq zia r jonne ato kanda jae. AMi bujhina ami kisher moddhe achi.?????

nisargo · #67 (**permalink**) 04-19-2007, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masoom

WASHINGTON, July 6: The US State Department’s newly declassified documents about the 1971 debacle show that Sheikh Mujibur Rahman wanted to have a “form of confederation” with Pakistan rather than a separate country. The documents include two telegrams dating Feb 28, 1971 and Dec 23, 1971 “based on the sentiments of Sheikh Mujib and the then Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi,” showing that Sheikh Mujib was not secessionist, as many in the then West Pakistan believed.

The telegrams, sent to the State Department by the US embassies in Pakistan and India, document key foreign policy decisions and actions of the administrations of Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford.

The telegram, entitled “Conversation with Sheikh Mujibur Rahman,” shows the path followed by the Awami League leader as he “talks of excesses by West Pakistan, states he (Mujib) is not willing to share power and does not want separation but rather a form of confederation.”

It just shows my information was correct….and let me inform u that that was before 7t march happened.. because before 7th march in the meeting of Al and other parties the student leaders and other leaders demanded to mujib to declear for the independence..and after deciding that seikh mujib never backed up..he gave that 7th march announcement…see..his gr8ness is influencing people to believe what u have achieved now..an independent bangladesh…his gr8ness is to able to hear the crying need of the people and react to it accordingly…

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masoom

In November 1969, a year before the war began, a US diplomat sent this report to Washington: “… East Pakistan, one also senses a growing undercurrent that beyond some intangible point the West Pakistan landlord-civil service-military elite might prefer to see the country split rather than submit to Bengali ascendancy.”

The tell us why Still bhutto and yahiya khan trying to massacre this country..why they brutally attacked our innocent people…if they don’t have the intention to submit to Bengali ascendancy then say why still they launched those brutal attacks..was that only for their enjoyment?or u wanna say actually nothing happened then ..we just overhyped about those incidents..i forget how do u decscrive 71? I suppose u would say that 71 was just a “gondogoler bosor”…but hear this dumb ass…that year is still now the year of our freedom fight to us…

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masoom

One telegram quotes Indira Gandhi as saying that President Nixon has “misunderstanding about India’s case” and that “there is fantastic nonsense being talked about in the US about our having received promises from the Soviet Union about the Soviet intervention against the seventh fleet and against China.”

The documents released on June 28 provide full coverage of the US policy towards India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the newly created state of Bangladesh from January 1969 to December 1972.

Documents from March to December 1971 include intelligence assessments, key messages from the US embassies in Islamabad and New Delhi and the Consulate General in Dhaka, responses to National Security Study memoranda and full transcripts of the presidential tape recordings that are summarized and excerpted in editorial notes in volume XI.

That era was known as cold war..america and soviet union was trying against each other to increase teir influence all over..why do u think soviet union supported us.because India supported us…otherwise usa and Pakistan was ready to do more massacre to this country…do u have that idea that in this massacre done by Pakistan usa helped them all the way..they were eve going to send their ship to help Pakistan.. ….i don’t think u have the idea…how can..u r bz trying to figure out how India was infiltrating us..but u forget to have the knowledge abt how pak was torturing us that time

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masoom

The historian branch of the State Department held a two-day conference on June 28 and 29 on US policy in South Asia between 1961 and 1972, inviting scholars from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh to express their views on the declassified documents.

During the seminar, Bangladeshi scholars acknowledged that their official figure of more than 3 million killed during and after the military action was not authentic.
They said that the original figure was close to 300,000, which was wrongly translated from Bengali into English as three million.

Ekta bacchao jane je juddhe 30 lakh lok mara gesilo..seita janar jonno bidheshi karo reference amader dorkar nai…oo..u happened to forget that about 1 crore people had to flee from their homes..they were to take shelter in India…or u think this was a wrong information? Chk ur reference abt that…

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masoom

Prof Sarmila Bose, an Indian academic, told the seminar that allegations of Pakistani army personnel raping Bengali women were grossly exaggerated.

It was a proven fact that Pakistanis raped our women…..still now there so many facts to supporting this information….do u have the idea abt the word “Birongona”..i don’t think so..do u know abt the war childs? I don’t think so..u should not say something abt which u don’t know..do u know if u even utter that sentence here in Bangladesh u will be bashed….bash kare kao bojho?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masoom

Prof Bose noted that no neutral study of the conflict has been done and reports that are passed on as part of history are narratives that strengthen one point of view by rubbishing the other. The Bangladeshi narratives, for instance, focus on the rape issue and use that not only to demonize the Pakistan army but also exploit it as a symbol of why it was important to break away from (West) Pakistan.

it only proves that how vague ur knowledge is abt our independence….in no documents or articles abt our freedom there is the only focus is on rape.. a man who knows Bangladesh history would laugh at it..u kow how many scholars of us was killed by them..when they realize they can’t win in 14th December they murdered our scholars to cripple our selves…do u know what 14th December called ..“buddhijibi dibosh”//do u know why is this called so?I don’t think u know abt that very much..because according to u “Pakistanis actually didn’t do anything.”.they just come to Bangladesh to have fun..to make picnic..dou really believe what have u written..did u hk ur facts?better do…because the way u r talking it sems to me u r a supporter from Pakistani and among them who didn’t wanted the freedom of Bangladesh that time..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masoom

Prof Bose, a Bengali herself and belonging to the family of Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose, emphasized the need for conducting independent studies of the 1971 conflict to bring out the facts.

She also spoke about the violence generated by all sides. “The civil war of 1971 was fought between those who believed they were fighting for a united Pakistan and those who believed their chance for justice and progress lay in an independent Bangladesh. Both were legitimate political positions. All parties in this conflict embraced violence as a means to the end, all committed acts of brutality outside accepted norms of warfare, and all had their share of humanity. These attributes make the 1971 conflict particularly suitable for efforts towards reconciliation, rather than recrimination,” says Prof Bose.

Ofcourse u fight…ofcourse our act was on violence..but after 25th march what should we do? What would u say abt the Pakistanis attack..don’t u know abt 25th march..or u have some stories to say abt that night also?..u cant deny 25th march…no way..and what they did in 25th march and after that ,to describe that as brutal is actually put it mildly….they attacked us..u only defended…they attacked our innocent pepole…murdered unarmed people..made our people to be refugee to india...destroys our homes…we answered them…not for revenge..to protect ourselves…

After saying all of those words u wanna make us believe that u actually support bangladesh!!!!!!!..i’ll be dammed if I believe that crap…is all ur posts we see more retort for freedom fight than mujib…if ur target would be only mujib I would not mind that ..but u r targeting our whole freedom fight…that’s where the problem lies…and reading ur post there comes a doubt r u really a Bangladeshi?or Pakistani? Or rajakar er supporter?..i have serious doubt abt that…cause the way ur talking seems 1 of them….ask any1….

nisargo · #68 (**permalink**) 04-19-2007, 12:14 AM

ekhane kisu boi er list dilam...
ei list ta Brsitr Din e nick er eekjon er kas theke neoa....
masoom,iblish..age ei boi gula pore aso..tarpor ei thread e post koiro....list diye disi..ekhn nischoy reference khjte kosto korte hobe na

Books on 71

BANGLADESH

Bangladesh at War
Maj. Gen. K. M. Safiullah

A Tale of Millions : Bangladesh Liberation War - 1971
Maj. Rafiqul Islam

Of Blood and Fire : The Untold Story of Bangladesh�s War of Independence
by Jahanara Imam translated Mustafizur Rahman

The Year that Was
Ishrat Firdousi

Bangladesh Liberation Movement : International Legal Implications
M. Rafiqul Islam

Bangladesh : Emergence of a Nation
A. M. A. Muhith

Bengali Nationalism & The Emergence of Bangladesh : An Introductory Outline
A. F. Salahuddin Ahmed

Spring 1971 : A Centre Stage Account of Bangladesh War of Liberation
Faruq Aziz Khan

American Response to Bangladesh Liberation War
A. M. A. Muhith

Breakup of Pakistan : Background & Prospects of Bangladesh
Kabir Uddin Ahmad

Bangladesh Genocide and World Press
Quaderi Fazlul Quader

The Last Days of a United Pakistan
G. W. Choudhury

PAKISTAN
The Betrayal of East Pakistan
Lt. Gen. A. A. K. Niazi

Memoirs of Lt. Gen. Gul Hassan Khan (The Last C-in-C of the Pakistan Army)
Lt. Gen. Gul Hassan Khan

The Pakistan Army 1966-1971
Maj. Gen. Shaukat Riza

Witness to Surrender
Brig. Siddiq Salik

Conflict, Crisis & War in Pakistan
Kalim Siddiqui

The Separation of East Pakistan : The Rise & Realisation of Bengali Muslim Nationalism
Hasan Zaheer

Blood and Tears : Accounts of the Atrocities Committed in E. Pakistan AL militants
Qutubuddin Aziz

Pakistan Divided : Study of the Factors and Forces Leading to the Break Up of Pakistan in 1971
Mahmood Safdar

INDIA
My Years with the IAF
Air Chief Marshal PC Lal

Surrender at Dacca - Birth of a Nation
Lt. Gen. J. F. R. Jacob

Victory in Bangladesh
Maj. Gen. Lachhman Singh

The Lightning Campaign : Indo/Pakistan War - 1971
Maj. Gen. D. K. Palit

India�s Wars Since Independence Vol.1 : The Liberation of Bangladesh
India's Wars Since Independence Vol.2 : Defence of the Western Border
India's Wars Since Independence Vol.3 : General Trends
Maj. Gen. Sukhwant Singh

Rivers of Silence
- Disaster on River Nam Ka Chu, 1962
- the Dash to Dhaka Across River Meghna during 1971
Maj. Gen. Ashok Kalyan Verma

Indian Gunners at War : The Western Front - 1971
Maj. Gen. Jagjit Singh

Genocide in East Pakistan/Bangladesh : A Horror Story
S. K. Bhattacharyya

The Rape of Bangladesh
Anthony Mascarenhas

Bangladesh Documents
Ministry of External Affairs, New Delhi

India & the Freedom Struggle of Bangladesh
ed. M. S. Deora

Bangladesh : Revolution for Liberation
K. K. Sinha

The Liberation War (Bangladesh)
Mohammed Ayoob & Subrahmanyam

Dismemberment of Pakistan)
Benedict Costa

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
War & Secession : Pakistan, India & the Creation of Bangladesh
Sisson & Rose

Prelude to Crisis - Bengal & Bengal Studies (1970)
ed. Peter Bertocci

Bangladesh : The Unfinished Revolution
Lawrence Lifschultz

UNITED KINGDOM

Pakistan Crisis
David Loshak

The East Pakistan Tragedy
L. F. Rushbrook Williams

The Tempest Within : An Account of East Pakistan
Dom Moraes

OTHER

The Western Front : The Indo-Pakistan War, 1971
Lt. Gen. K. P. Candeth

Tragedy of Errors : East Pakistan Crisis, 1968 - 1971
Lt. Gen. Kamal Matinuddin

No Way But Surrender : An Account of the Indo-Pak War in the Bay of Bengal,1971
Vice Admiral N. Krishnan

How Pakistan Got Divided
Maj. Gen. Rao Farman Ali

The Story of My Struggle
Maj. Gen. Tajammul Hussein Malik

Indian Sword Strikes in East Pakistan
Maj. Gen. Lachhman Singh

Pakistan�s Crisis in Leadership
Maj. Gen. Fazal Khan Muqeem

Operation Windfall : Emergence of Bangladesh
Brig. H. S. Sodhi

Dismemberment of Pakistan : 1971 Indo/Pak War
Brig. Jagdev Singh

East Pakistan to Bangladesh
Brig. Saadullah Khan

The Bangladesh Papers : The Recorded Statements and Speeches of ZA Bhutto, Mujeeb-ur-Rahman, Gen. Yahya Khan and other Politicans of United Pakistan, 1969 � 1971

History of Bangladesh War of Independence Document
ed. Hafizur Rahman Hasan

Revolt in East Bengal
R. K. Dasgupta

Asia�s Flashpoint, 1971 : Bangladesh
Herbert Feith

Emergence of Bangladesh and Big Power Role on 1971
Jaglul Alam

War with Pakistan
J. S. B. Arora

Bangladesh Liberation Struggle, 1971 : The Role of USA, China, Soviet Union and India

Big Power Role in the Indo � Pak Conflict of 1971
Javed Kamran Bashir

Dismemberment of Pakistan
Benedict Costa

Midnight Massacre in Dacca
Sukharanjan Dasgupta

The 14 Day War
Ministry of Information and Broadcasting

Spotlight : Feedom Fighters of Bangladesh : A New Outlook Based on Author�s Research
Shiv Kumar Garg

Disintegration of Pakistan
D. G. A. Khan

Fall of Niazi and Birth of Bangladesh
A. M. Khandaker

Pakistan Divided
Safdar Mahmood

Pakistan Cut to Size : The Authentic Story of the 14 day Indo � Pak War
D. R. Mankekar

Not the Whole Truth : East Pakistan Crisis (March � December 1971)
ed. Sarfaraz Hussain Mizra

The Tempest Within : An Account of East Pakistan
Dom Moraes

The Soldier is Afraid : An Account of Operation Sikander, Bangladesh War,1971
Noel G. O�Connor

White Paper on the Crisis in East Pakistan
Pakistan Ministry of Information and National Affairs

Internal Strife and External Intervention : India�s Role in the Civil War in E. Pakistan
Hasam-Askari Rizvi

The Deliberate Debacle
Mahmood Safdar

Pakistan Divided : Study of the Factors and Forces Leading to the Break Up of Pakistan in 1971
Mahmood Safdar

The Decisive War : Emergence of a New Nation
S. S. Sethi

War of Independence in Bangladesh : A Documentary Study
ed. I. N. Tewary

Bangladesh , Sufferings, Survival : Let Humanity Not Forget
Abul Hasanat

The Ugliest Genocide in History
Abul Hasanat

Blood and Tears : Accounts of the Atrocities Committed in E. Pakistan by AL militants
Qutubuddin Aziz

Genocide in Bangladesh
Kalyan Choudhury

East Pakistan : Roots of the Genocide
Pakistan Forum Publication

How Pakistan Violated Human Rights in Bangladesh
Indian Council of World Affairs

War Crimes and Genocide : The Trial of Pakistani War Criminals
Brijesh Narain Mehrish

Genocide in Bangladesh : Harrowing Accounts of Some Eye Witnesses
M. Rafiqul Islam

Dhaka 1971 : An Album of Liberation War
Dhaka City Museum

The Process of Priority Formulation : US Foreign Policy in the Indo-Pak War of 1971
Dan Haendel

The Role of India and the Big Powers in East Pakistan Crisis of 1971
Matiur Rahman

Bangladesh, My Bangladesh : Selected Speeches and Statements (28/10/70 -26/03/70)
Sheikh M. Rahman, ed. Ramendu Majumdar

South Asian Crisis (India-Pakistan-Bangladesh)
Robert Jackson

The End and the Beginning (Pakistan 1969 - 1971)
Herbert Feldman

Source: Internet Posting in newsgroup soc.culture.bangladesh by Abdul M. Ismail��

Courtesy: meltingpot.fortunecity.com/hastings/430/

Masoom · #69 (**permalink**) 04-19-2007, 04:59 AM

Nishargo, I thought I was debating with a grown up person but just realized that I am not but rather a little kid! Is it hard to see that post has a title saying that that information is a news article and not my own! You seem to agree with anything suits you and then say everything is false without any references! Go and learn how to debate before starting to debate, and when you debate you must be ready to hear the other side without being offended and how dare you call me a traitor you fool.

Every information you gave here has no references nor any facts, it’s more like you r bed time stories you now reading out to us.

oYn · #70 (**permalink**) 04-19-2007, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masoom

Sheikh Mujib wanted a confederation: US papers

WASHINGTON, July 6: The US State Department’s newly declassified documents about the 1971 debacle show that Sheikh Mujibur Rahman wanted to have a “form of confederation” with Pakistan rather than a separate country. The documents include two telegrams dating Feb 28, 1971 and Dec 23, 1971 “based on the sentiments of Sheikh Mujib and the then Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi,” showing that Sheikh Mujib was not secessionist, as many in the then West Pakistan believed.
.........................................................................
My whole family is AL supporters including 1 previous MP but I don't hate MP but most Bangladeshi politicians, I disagree Mujib was so great as people make him to be but I strongly respect all freedom fighters. My point is to accept good and bad but not just the good! My point is why give all credit to Mujib who gained more then lost and no credit to the freedom fighters that only lost and lost.

I don't have time to read all these shit unless you give me proper references. I hope you are smart enough to understand how to cite references. If not then let me know.

I kinda skimmed through it, but havn't found names of people who wrote those. I don't care where its published. Give me names of people who wrote those.

One of the point you mentioned that "Almost all scholars agreed that the real figure was somewhere between 26,000". I need names of some of these scholars, the reason behind is simple - for e.g Golam Ajam can be a scholar for the rajakars or Pakistan but not for Bangladesh.I need specific names.

I don't care which party your family supports or which AL MP is your relative. These facts(?) are irrelevant in our current discussion.